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An Interview with Jock Sturges
By various interviewers | Wisdom and Inspiration |
May 18, 2010
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Question:
What is the difference between eroticism, pornography and child pornography?
Jock Sturges:
It's a large question -- not least of all because all such terms are so subjective.
One persons pornography is another person's commercial bra add. What's
pornographic for me is imagery where the subject's dignity and identity are
sacrificed utterly to serve an objectifying purpose -- usually with a strong
emphasis on the sex. This de-humanizing sort of photography holds no interest for me at all. I won't even treat with what might be child pornography as common sense tells us all what it is -- it's unmistakable -- provided you are possessed of a modicum of common sense that is. A still more interesting question is what is the line between charm or sensual photography and the fine art nude...
Question:
Mr. Sturges, could you let me know what you do
Jock Sturges:
I am a fine art photographer specializing in large format nudes done with subjects
over the long course of their lives. Some of the serial portraits that I am invested
in are represent close to thirty years of work with the same models. So I know the
people with whom I work WELL. The work is in fact a record of relationship. In
many cases now I am photographing the children of people who were children
when I began with them -- so from this evidence one hopes that you can see that these are easily seen as GOOD relationships.
Question:
The concept of "Time" runs through every image yet each is timeless....due to the
stripping bare of superficiality (inherent in the cultures you portray. Your entire
body of work over the years also embraces the concept of time - the passage -
and its consequences, to wit: growth, maturity, the continuum. When you began
this body of work, was it your intent or did you suddenly find yourself with this
collection of images that reflected "Time" so beautifully.
Jock Sturges:
The work led me. I had been doing it for over a decade before I ever showed it to
anyone. And you're right in suspecting that it happened more than it was
organized. I gradually realized that the best pictures consistently were of the
people with whom I had worked the longest.
Question:
do your models ever request not to use their photos or become self conscious over
the course of time?
Jock Sturges:
They do -- on a few occasions this has happened with American kids who were of
high school age. (never in Europe) But once they were older they relaxed again.
The transition from childhood to adulthood in the states is complex and bumpy. In
the European naturist communities in which I work it is far smoother -- and less
traumatic.
Question:
what age group do you find it the easiest to work with?
Jock Sturges:
It's easiest to say what is hardest which is ages 2, 3 and 4. Babies are easy and
four and older responds to reason. Everyone else is easy for me.
Question:
Have you had an censorship problems in other countries besides the US?
Jock Sturges:
I have had no censorship problems outside the US at all. We're the weirdest.
Question:
If I remember correctly, you've had to endure legal harassment at times during
your career. How were you able to persevere, or did you ever consider not
pursuing the study.
Jock Sturges:
I've never considered stopping. Nor will. I persevered perhaps because I am not
bright enough to stop -- it's all I know how to do. And I hate being told to shut up
by people for whom I have no respect. Makes me ornery.
Question:
Do you think the relationship with the model is enhanced with the use of large
format? I can't see you getting the same response from 35mm.
Jock Sturges:
Definitely. People really like the complement of such a large and obviously
expensive piece of gear being aimed at them -- they feel flattered. And they love
the upside-down world! Also -- 35mm's are EASY -- and you all know it. How
much compliment is there in so casual a gesture as a quickly made 35mm frame?
Question:
Why do you think that is? Is working with a fresh new model more difficult to
position or could it present new perceptions?
Jock Sturges:
Actually this is interesting I don't pose people -- ever. So all my models are
"fresh". People who have posed for other photographers who have absorbed a
sense of artificial pose being expected of them are what I find impossible to work with.
Question:
So what do you tell your models to "do" when they stand in front of your camera? If you don't pose them, do you guide them at all?
Jock Sturges:
When I have on a few occasion had my own models work for a workshop I've been
teaching and the workshop members have tried to "pose" them they were pretty
taken aback when the girls said "No -- I would never do that..." and walked
away...
Question:
How do you build such close relationships with your subjects.
Jock Sturges:
By liking them? Seriously, some people I know for years before ever shooting
them. Fanny, who has become one of my more important long-term subjects, I
knew for three years before I ever took her picture. I didn't do so until SHE
wanted to. The simple truth is I only photograph people I like -- and who like me.
And that can take years. I never worry about being imitated because you can
imitate content but you can never duplicate the result of knowing someone for
twenty years.
Question:
Obviously, the controversy over your nude images have increased book and photo
sales of that work. But, has it helped sales of your other fine art work?
Jock Sturges:
Yup. A bunch. The best revenge is to live well.
Question:
DON'T POSE?? A large camera, tripod , light considerations and you compose a
fantastic image this composing has to involve some level of orchestration (misty
dawn 1991, 1990 for example) how do you achieve this "relationship" between the lens and the subject?
Jock Sturges:
Almost none. The less I say, the better. But first time models can be a little
self-conscious so I might say "just go over there". My best pictures very often
happen when folks think I am out of film and relax completely and I then say
"DON'T MOVE!!!" and move the camera and make a picture as fast as I can.
Accepting as opposed to imposing poses is my creed.
Question:
If you were for instance to start with a new model, what direction would
you give them?
Jock Sturges:
I find the composition. Obviously I know something about composition so I try and
work in good light with good grounds. But as to what the models actually DO -- I
leave that almost entirely to them. And it is part of why they stay with me and the
work. Asked by an anthropologist what they remember about being photographed
when younger they ALL said that the one thing they like the most is that I didn't
ask them to DO anything -- that I accepted them as they were. Adolescents don't
get that much.
Question:
Is it true that much of your work was inexplicably "lost" by the Government after
the Meese raid and case?
Jock Sturges:
Some lost, the rest destroyed through intentional negligence. They took over a
thousand exhibition prints and ONE (1) was salvageable.
Question:
How much time passes between sessions with your continuing subjects?
Jock Sturges:
Sometimes a year -- though I usually see my American subjects two or three
times a year.
Question:
Would you agree that the absence of orchestrated poses gives your images a
photo journalistic quality?
Jock Sturges:
Sometimes. The work often looks to me more static than I would really like -- I've
been working against this in recent years. Working more loosely. The Irish kids
have helped with this because they WON'T hold still. Sally Mann makes pictures
that look REALLY spontaneous and yet they are almost always completely
stage-directed. I do the opposite and my images can look more posed. Go figure.
Question:
Are you a naturist yourself? If not, does that bother some of your subjects. Do you work alone or do you have someone to assisting you? Also, if you are a naturist, where do you put your lens cap?
Jock Sturges:
I am. The lens cap hangs on a string. I sometimes work with an assistant but if so,
he or she is part of the same scene. My technique is pretty simple -- one lens, one
film, no light meter, a couple of round reflectors. That's it.
Question:
If you had to choose a particular book, image, or exhibition that you would most
want to be remembered by posterity for, which might you choose?
Jock Sturges:
Pretty much always what I have done the most recently. Every year. I love
WORKING, the process itself. What a privileged life I lead!
Question:
No meter?
Jock Sturges:
Nope. Nuisance. Unnecessary. Utterly. I make around 3 - 4000 pictures a year and
they ALL print well. I overexpose a lot and under develop a lot. Worked for Weston. Works for me. The zone system bites.
Question:
The censorship thing must have made you angry. What do you think it is about
our American culture that censors your images here and not outside US and when/how do you think it starts?
Jock Sturges:
Boy, if I could answer that question. All I know is that in promoting and advancing
SHAME as a social good, the "repressors" get the opposite of what they want. Less repressive cultures (the Netherlands for example) have much lower rates of child abuse and abuse of women in general. We are very immature here.
Question:
The fact that you are not surrounded by equipment and do not stop for camera or
lens changes probably causes your subject to be more calm and in turn better
photos are produced with minimal equipment?
Jock Sturges:
Exactly. Well put. Less is more. And I am only thinking about the one
important thing -- who my model is and how she is feeling. In my head are no
thoughts of lenses or films or technical options. Try it. It's liberating. And
cheaper!!!
Question:
Don't think that censorship is only in the US, I had a Jock Sturges book taken by
customs in the UK!!! Maybe they just liked it.
Jock Sturges:
The UK is special. I don't go there. Lost too many good genes in the two wars
perhaps. Ireland is different.
Question:
Do you work exclusively in black and white? If so, why?
Jock Sturges:
Nope. I do a little color. I have been doing a small amount of color each year for
almost ten years but have rarely shown it and never published any of it before.
Question:
Do you have a particular film that you always use?
Jock Sturges:
Tri-X. The least important thing you could ask about. Does it matter what brushes
any given painter used? That's a "photography" question. I am not interested in
photography. I am interested in what photographers KNOW about what they
shoot. When they know a lot, their pictures can inspire.
Question:
Do you make images for yourself, for history, or for money? Where you a
professional photographer when you started taking your nudes. If so, where you in
art or in the commercial business?
Jock Sturges:
The pictures I make are for me. I am pleased that people are kind enough to like them
but they have always been pictures that I made because I wanted to own them. I have always worked in photography -- was a dance photographer for almost twenty years and did a little fashion on the side. I still accept occasional
commercial assignments ( I too have cats to feed). You can see some of the ballet line repeated in my work in subtle ways.
Question:
How did you develop your style, what took you in this direction as opposed to
work like Ansel Adam's landscapes or Karl Struss's stylized architectural work.
What gave you the idea of lifetime portraits?
Jock Sturges:
What's your favorite color? I didn't CHOOSE to like what I like. It happened
to me. When I went to art school to get an MFA in the early eighties I was
bemused to see people standing around talking about what they should maybe do.
I thought, "they don't know???" I somehow always knew. Since I was quite small
(and, boy, has THAT been a while...)
Question:
What percentage of your total work really receives all the censorship flack? Does it
irritate you that other more "important" work that you do might be overlooked? Or
don't you feel that it is being overlooked?
Jock Sturges:
I don't let those folks irritate me particularly. It's like wasting anger on a dumb
drive -- you only lose. My work is about 50% nudes perhaps less than a quarter of
which are young enough to raise ignorant hackles.
Question:
Do you have any new projects in the works?
Jock Sturges:
I've just returned from Germany where I was printing a new book with Scalo (the
publisher of my last book as well). This new book is considerably larger so the
illustrations are much bigger and is printed in tri-tone as well so it is easily the
most physically beautiful of my books to date. The work is all new, dating, with a
single exception, from the last four years, and there is a surprise in the middle
eight color images
Question:
Are any examples available of work you might have done in 35mm or medium
format?
Jock Sturges:
None. The 35 is a tool -- like a hammer -- for me. I make a living with it for
a long time but never did work with it for myself because I always wanted MORE in
my pictures than toy negatives could deliver...
Question:
I read a short story and think, What would be the perfect shot to go with that
story. I get inspiration from fiction, paintings, films, etc. What inspires you?
Jock Sturges:
My wife inspires me -- like hope and oxygen. The joy I feel every year when I
re-discover old friends and they have changed, metamorphosed, become
something more, larger, more powerful -- THAT inspires me. Evening light makes
my heart lurch. Clear eyes. A profile seen from behind -- as in Renoir's paintings.
Good museums. And, Always, always, always, the art of others. We are sadly
diminished. But if you go to galleries, go to museums, look at art books, visit
artists, think and make -- then you have the chance to do something meaningful. Burn your televisions.
Question:
Is the darkroom where you really create your images after the exposure
has been made.
Jock Sturges:
I HATE the darkroom. Have to do it right but what I
like is being in the light with the people whom I like so much and the pictures.
Everything in between is a pain.
Question:
This has really been an eye opener for me because I can be so equipment minded even though I know that it's just the black box and light.
Jock Sturges:
Equipment is a blind alley. The answer does not lie in THINGS. It lies in what you
know -- or can come to know. If you make pictures bout something about which
you have come to know a great deal, then your pictures have the potential to
become revelations to the rest of us. That's not about equipment. Less is more.
Question:
What do you have hanging over the mantel?
Jock Sturges:
Over my mantle hangs a large, round, Tuscan plate, flanked on both sides by a
modest pair of my pictures that Maia picked out. Elsewhere in the house there are
a few Sally Manns, several prints by Shelby Lee Adams (wonderful
photographer!!!) and lots and lots of drawings and paintings.
all images copyright Jock Sturges
More images here:
http://www.photoeye.com/GALLERY/forms2/index.cfm?image=1&id=42111&imagePosition=1&Door=51&Portfolio=Portfolio1&Gallery=0&Page=83
Documentary about Jock Sturges
http://www.amadelio.org/jock_sturges/sturges_documentary_trailer.htm
Books:
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Last Updated: Aug 11th, 2010 - 13:36:44
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